Proceed with caution

[twospirits]

BL said,

So you believe that you go to Hell when you die? For no one will go to the presence of The Father until Messiah comes out of the Holy of Holies, showing The People that The Sacrifice has been acepted as perfect. Messiah coming as High Priest, King and Judge upon all things that are against God. IF Salvation has not come to you -NOW-, then the reign of death is still with us and you are judged for death until such Judgment. The OT Saints looked for the fulfillment of The Promises. The NC Saints of 30AD-70AD looked for the Fulfillment as they knew that the curse of 'The Law was still in force. The OT prophets did not 'look' for Two, Three, or more 'comings' to bring Salvation and the ending of the old H&E. Evil is of this 'world' and always has been, but that does not mean it is AGAINST God. Being graffted into the Tree of Life does not mean the carnel nature of the world will be gone.

Hell is the grave, the lake of fire is the second death for the unbeliever. For the believers, "after their death," they are resurrected and live with the Lord in the eternal realm. You speak as if you will never see death since you believe death is no more (has been overcome here and now), that you are now immortal and living in the new heaven and earth, and there is no more curse on this planet. You also speak that righteousness and sin (the carnel nature) will live together here forever. Well that's not what Rev. 21-8 and 22-14 tells me: They that do his commandments will have the right to the tree of life, and will have the right to enter through the gates and into the city, the new Jerusalem. All others (the unbelievers) will not co-exist with the righteous, they will be shut out (receive the second death).

Oh, by the way, I forgot to give you the proper translation of Eph. 3-21 translated "world without end." This is not the proper and correct translation. It literally reads, "To him (auto) the (e) glory (doxa) in (en) the (te) church (ekklesia) and (kai) in (en) Christ (Christo) Jesus (iesau) throughout (eis) all (pasas) the (tas) generations (geneas) of (tou) age (aionos) of (ton) ages (aionon) Amen."

So without the Greek it reads,"To him the glory in the church and in Christ Jesus throughout all the generations of age of ages Amen" This is why Paul said in Eph. 2-7, "That in THE AGES to come he might show the exceeding riches of his grace in kindness toward us through Christ Jesus." So we see that the "church age" is not "forever," that is "continuous" in the way we see it, but would "remain" in the ages to come, though there may be an interruption "between the ages."

God bless---Twospirits

[Brother Les]

ts
You speak as if you will never see death since you believe death is no more (has been overcome here and now), that you are now immortal and living in the new heaven and earth, and there is no more curse on this planet. You also speak that righteousness and sin (the carnel nature) will live together here forever

True,. My immortality is, as Father God is. Are you having trouble on focusing on how Father God is?

Well that's not what Rev. 21-8 and 22-14 tells me:

To you, what is this Lake-o-Fire (Rev 21:8)? To you, where is the Tree of Life and City of God (Rev 22:14). Are you having trouble 'seeing' "The Tree of Life (Jesus) and The City (New Jerusalem, ie. Heaven) of Father God.

All others (the unbelievers) will not co-exist with the righteous, they will be shut out (receive the second death).

That seems to be going on -Today-,. Did you miss that at The Parousia of Christ to You? (each in his own order)

So without the Greek it reads,"To him the glory in the church and in Christ Jesus throughout all the generations of age of ages Amen" This is why Paul said in Eph. 2-7, "That in THE AGES to come he might show the exceeding riches of his grace in kindness toward us through Christ Jesus." So we see that the "church age" is not "forever," that is "continuous" in the way we see it, but would "remain" in the ages to come, though there may be an interruption "between the ages."

God bless---Twospirits

Haven't a clue how you got that. An NT passages says (paraphrase) 'we who are at the End of The Ages' (present tense, first century) meaning The End of The Ages of Death (OC).

Eph 2:4-11 has no bases of AN 'Ending of Life'.

[twospirits]

BL said,

True,. My immortality is, as Father God is. Are you having trouble on focusing on how Father God is?

Brother Les, I must say, you have a way to twist the meaning (and answers) of my words. Stop being coy, you know I meant "physical death," and not a spiritual death. If not, then please read "the context of the entire passage, and not a word here and a word there." Hey I can do that to!

To you, what is this Lake-o-Fire (Rev 21:8)? To you, where is the Tree of Life and City of God (Rev 22:14). Are you having trouble 'seeing' "The Tree of Life (Jesus) and The City (New Jerusalem, ie. Heaven) of Father God.

I will ask you the same thing, what do you say the lake of fire is? I and scripture answered you, it's called the second death. I also answered "where" the tree of life and city of God is (in heaven), and I have no problem "seeing" it (spiritually), but apparently you do. For you even go as far as to say we "are in it now," physically and spiritually. Is my eyesight and my physical senses failing me that bad that I cannot see this sinless new heaven, new earth, new Jerusalem around me?

Haven't a clue how you got that. An NT passages says (paraphrase) 'we who are at the End of The Ages' (present tense, first century) meaning The End of The Ages of Death.

Eph 2:4-11 has not bases of AN 'Ending'.

I got that from Strong's Concordance, and others as well. A good site for Greek translations is: bible.cc/hebrews/9-24htm. Look up Eph. 3-21. It reads,"To him the glory in the church and in Christ Jesus throughout all the generations of age of ages Amen"

This is why Paul said in Eph. 2-7, "That in THE AGES to come he might show the exceeding riches of his grace in kindness toward us through Christ Jesus." So we see that the "church age" is not "forever," that is "continuous" in the way we see it, but would "remain" in the ages to come, though there may be an "interruption between the ages," NOT an ending. I never said that, it is YOU who said that. Please respond correctly to what I post.

God bless---Twospirits

[Brother Les]

ts

BL said,

True,. My immortality is, as Father God is. Are you having trouble on focusing on how Father God is?

Brother Les, I must say, you have a way to twist the meaning (and answers) of my words. Stop being coy, you know I meant "physical death," and not a spiritual death. If not, then please read "the context of the entire passage, and not a word here and a word there." Hey I can do that to!

The answer stands. The 'flesh' is only good (or is that carnel?) to use while you still have it, once it falls away there is no going back to what was once manifested.

ts
I will ask you the same thing, what do you say the lake of fire is? I and scripture answered you, it's called the second death.

So you are saying that 'Death and Hell' are cast into 'Death' (and death happend again?) ? Rev 20:14

ts
I also answered "where" the tree of life and city of God is (in heaven), and I have no problem "seeing" it (spiritually), but apparently you do.

And as Father God is a (The ) Spirit, and He is every where. Doesn't that make 'Heaven' everywhere, here on Earth and in The Ether? I 'see' 'The Tree of Life and City of God (New Jerusalem) as Both Spiritual and Physical. God/Jesus may be (is) a Spiritual God, but He does have a Physical Presence (Parousia) around and with you. (do you 'see' Him, do you 'hear' Him, do you'feel' Him, do you 'know' Him?) God is Literally Physicaly and Spirutually 'here'.

Is my eyesight and my physical senses failing me that bad that I cannot see this sinless new heaven, new earth, new Jerusalem around me?

I guess so. Maybe you lack that certain type of Faith and God wants you in the 'state' that you are in.

This is why Paul said in Eph. 2-7, "That in THE AGES to come he might show the exceeding riches of his grace in kindness toward us through Christ Jesus." So we see that the "church age" is not "forever," that is "continuous" in the way we see it, but would "remain" in the ages to come, though there may be an "interruption between the ages," NOT an ending. I never said that, it is YOU who said that.

God bless---Twospirits

You do realise that the 'Age that Paul was living and writting in, was the Mosaic Age. 'The Ages' (generations) to come are the Messianic Age that came to it's fullness in AD70

[dlspence_58]

Henry, Please remember that the FPs don't understand the concept of a will/covenant. When a person dies their will goes into effect. When Jesus died the New Covenant went into effect. Jesus never placed any terms in the NC that it would not take effect until 40 years after His death (i.e., AD 70).

Hebrews 8:8-13

[twospirits]

Dispence said,

Henry, Please remember that the FPs don't understand the concept of a will/covenant. When a person dies their will goes into effect. When Jesus died the New Covenant went into effect. Jesus never placed any terms in the NC that it would not take effect until 40 years after His death (i.e., AD 70).

Yes I know what you mean. I have had talks (forum posts) with FP on planetpreterist and other sites, and it is very difficult to hold a discussion with them. They seem to "go around" the issues (the posts) you bring up, with their own questions and issues in a rapid-fire way, where the initial point or points get buried. Also, "SOME," NOT ALL, when they can't biblically answer,tend to throw wisecracks and insults at you. When they start that, I ignore them. I will not respond to those types of posts.

God bless---Twospirits

[Brother Les]

by dlspence_58 »

Henry, Please remember that the FPs don't understand the concept of a will/covenant.

It should give you a clue that FPs do understand the covenants .... we call it "Covenant Eschatology"

When a person dies their will goes into effect

The OC, 'Mosaic marriage contract'/'Mosaic Will'/ 'Mosaic convenant terms' must have an end date of fulfillment.When the Husband died (Jesus/God), there was a judgement of Death put upon His murderer. YHWHs OC 'will' had declarations of Curses and Blessings. The Blessings were to come only after The Curses were carried out.that was carried out in AD70.

A 'Promise' of a NC marriage, is only that "A Promise", until it is carried out. The NC is a marraige Covenant Contract that has no end date. In order to be a binding NC Contract of Marriage, there must be a marriage between the parties involved.That did not happen at The Cross or Pentecost. God or Judah/Israel/Gentiles could not marry (re-marry the elect) as long as the OC Will was in force and it was in force until the Judgments were carried out.

When Jesus died the New Covenant went into effect.

No, it did not. The NC, in order to go into effect, the parties involved must be bound together, ie. married. Many in the modern church, preach that the marriage of Jesus/God to The Church is still a future event. 'The church' does not preach that the Jewish state of Israel in Palistine is 'married' to YHWH under the NC marriage covenant.. -yet-.

Jesus never placed any terms in the NC that it would not take effect until 40 years after His death (i.e., AD 70).

Are you so sure about that? In realtion with the types and anti-type of Passover -The Cross, Sinai - Pentecost, Gilgal - Holocaust of Judea and the begining of the Fullness of the New Covenant Age. The terms of fulfilling the OC to its' fullness, ushered in the (re-) marriage of YHWH in a New marriage to a new People, called by a New Name. These people had to be 'Virgins' and not under 'The Curse'.

[dlspence_58]

Please show me in Hebrews 8:8-13 where the work of Christ was insufficient until AD 70!

[twospirits]

Brother Les said,

No, it did not. The NC, in order to go into effect, the parties involved must be bound together, ie. married. Many in the modern church, preach that the marriage of Jesus/God to The Church is still a future event.

For the New Covenant to go into effect, there first must be a "betrothal." To see if the proposal was accepted, the man would pour a cup of wine and wait to see if she drank it. This cup represents a blood covenant ( Matt. 26:28. If she drank the cup means she accepted the proposal and they would be betrothed. The young man would then give his beloved gifts and then leave. The young woman would have to wait for him to return and collect her. Before leaving the man would announce, “I am going to prepare a place for you,” and “I will return for you when it is ready.” (John 14:1-3). The practice was for the man to return to the father's house and build a honeymoon room there. If asked the date of his wedding he would have to reply, "Only my father knows." ( Matt. 24:36; Mark 13:32). Meanwhile the bride would be making herself ready so that she would be pure and beautiful for her bridegroom.

When the wedding chamber was ready the bridegroom could collect his bride. He could do this at any time. It was the custom for a bride to keep a lamp, her veil and her other things beside her bed. Her bridesmaids were also waiting and had to have oil ready for their lamps. (Matt. 25:1-13). When the groom and his friends got close to the bride's house they would give a shout and blow a shofar to let her know to be ready. When the wedding party arrived at the father's house the newly weds went into the wedding chamber for a seven day honeymoon and the groom's best friend stood outside waiting for the groom to tell him that the marriage had been consummated (Rev. 19:7).

We read in Matt. 21:43 where Jesus is speaking to the Jewish leaders who rejected him as the Messiah: “Therefore say I unto you, the kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.” This judgment and complete divorce of the Jewish nation was completed with the destruction of the temple and Jerusalem in 70 A.D.; after Christ had become betrothed to the bride to be, the church in 30A.D. Made up of Jew and Gentile alike, awaiting for the "consummation" of the marriage at his second coming, and the marriage feast to follow.

The "consummation" of the marriage has yet to occur, for Christ has not come for his bride. “I will return for you when it is ready.” (John 14-1-3). The destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D. was a judgment on OC Israel, not the marriage of the Lamb.

God bless---Twospirits

[Brother Les]

by dlspence_58 »
Please show me in Hebrews 8:8-13 where the work of Christ was insufficient until AD 70!

Twospirits answers part of that in his post (which also indicates by him that the NC marriage of Jesus/God to His Elect has not come to anyone yet, only The Promise of Marriage)

The destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D. was a judgment on OC Israel, not the marriage of the Lamb.

God bless---Twospirits

The Judgment of AD70 was on OC "Israel", ie. Judah of Judea, The House of Israel of the Disporia, and all of those in Sheol. Hebrews 8:8-13 declares the promise of the New Covenant to... The House of Judah... and... The House of Israel (Ephraim/The Nations/Gentiles) Ephraim was not in Judea as covenant keeper of the Mosaic Law, they (she) was divorced and not allowed to return back to YHWH under that covenant (lest the Husband Sin). Ephraim could only come into the NC only as a seperate group (Israel under a New Name, Gentile) This could only happen in after 'the Times of The Gentiles (after the Temple was leveled). A Covenant (marriage)was not complete until it was consemated, a betrothal is not a consemation, it is only a Promise of a coming wedding. No Wedding... no Covenant...only a Promise of a covenant... There could be NO Coventant until The Coming of The Groom for His Bride.
Hard core pre-mill dipsies understand this point, but they look to a future NC coming only to Israel (Palistinian State Israel) by Jesus/YHWH. Their hard core teachings show that 'The Church' is not in a NC relationship with Jesus, only a betrothal relationship. they understand that 'Israel' (Jews) must FIRST come into the NC and Then the Gentiles (Ephraim/Nations) before the NC can be in full force. I know (I think) that despence_58 and twospirits do not follow this line of thinking. But they should understand that the 'Line' of thinking is TRUE, Scripturally, but it is the Futurests 'Timing' that is 2,000 years off and admiting that 'Israel' is made up of only a believiing remnent, which came about in the first century.

[twospirits]

BL said,

A Covenant (marriage)was not complete until it was consemated, a betrothal is not a consemation, it is only a Promise of a coming wedding. No Wedding... no Covenant...only a Promise of a covenant... There could be NO Coventant until The Coming of The Groom for His Bride.

Correct, the covenant, though in effect, could not be "fulfilled" until the coming of the Groom for his bride in order to consummate the marriage. Scripture reveals that Christ was betrothed to the New Testament church. This is seen in 2 Cor. 11-2 where we read: “---for I have betrothed you to one husband that I might present (you as) a chaste virgin to Christ” ( see also Eph. 5-25-27). Paul speaks of Christ's betrothal to the church that is composed of the Jewish remnant and the Gentiles. Much can be seen in the parables of Jesus and in his rebuking of the Jewish leaders concerning the marriage and wedding supper of the Lord Jesus.

Jesus said, “Let not your heart be troubled; ye believe in God, believe also in me. In my Father's house are many mansions (lit. dwellings); if (it were) not (so) I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you unto myself; that where I am (there) ye may be also” (John 14-1-3). This is symbolic of the betrothal period to his bride in this passage.

We see in Rev. 19-2, that the judgment of God has been poured out on Mystery Babylon the great Harlot. And it is at this time that “the marriage of the Lamb is come,” and “his wife hath made herself ready.” It is then that the call goes out to “they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb” (Rev. 19-9). This is the time that Christ comes for the bride in order to consummate the marriage in his Father's house.

God bless---Twospirits