Proceed with caution

[twospirits]

It is vital that the people of God are given the truth about prophetic scripture. Thank God that today, we have the means to do so, but so does the enemies of Christ. I believe that most, though not all, are sincere in the doctrines they hold to.

But it is never acceptable to say “I could be wrong, but I remain comfortable on my views, and don't want to bother with other views.” It is a fact today that someone has to be wrong and is teaching error! And it certainly is not the Holy Spirit teaching those errors of scripture in the body of Christ! Therefore the failure to study this issue, and others, forces us to hold one position or another, (that is one's doctrines), as a matter of tradition, rather than the Inspired Doctrine of Scripture.

In our day, there have come many scoffers both inside and outside of the church, saying that the return of Christ is many, many years away, and others doubt or even deny his coming at all. At present, to most in the world, they do not appear to be threatened by the return of Christ despite the world's present condition in its moral standing with God.

Nonetheless, contrary to what they say, the Bible speaks otherwise. “But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night” (2 Peter 3-10).
Jesus says in John 14-2-3, “I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to myself; that where I am, there you may be also.”

Until then we are given a word of caution: The Lord warns us that we will not know precisely when he will come back, but we are advised to watch. Thief's do not send "warning messages" that they are coming as the Lord reveals to us in 1 Thess. 5-1-4. “But concerning the times and the seasons, brethren, you have no need that I should write to you. For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape.”
Christ's return will be surprising, sudden, and shocking to most people on the earth. The Bible clearly indicates that he will come when a majority of the people least expect him. “---Therefore let us not sleep, as others do, but let us watch and be sober.”

God bless---Twospirits

[Lumberjack]

Hello Twospirits,

The Lords final return will be on " The Last Day ". But before the " Last Day", the Lord said all the nations will be " Disciples". Are you ready to go to work? Or are you going to sit around and " Watch " ?

Lumberjack

[Brother Les]

twospirits, you need to get Gary DeMars "Last Days Maddnesss".

[twospirits]

Hello Twospirits,

The Lords final return will be on " The Last Day ". But before the " Last Day", the Lord said all the nations will be " Disciples". Are you ready to go to work? Or are you going to sit around and " Watch " ?

Lumberjack

I agree that the Lord's return will be on "The "Last Day," and unknown as to its exact time, thus the warning given us. Meanwhile we watch "and work," which I am doing. I have written two books and in the process of publishing my third book. How about you?

Brother Les,

I have researched books and articles on preterism and its doctrine. I am about to read Gary Demar's book, Last Days Madness. But in general they all speak the same language concerning prophetic scripture and their fulfillment.

God bless---Twospirits

[Brother Les]

by twospirits
Until then we are given a word of caution: The Lord warns us that we will not know precisely when he will come back, but we are advised to watch. Thief's do not send "warning messages" that they are coming as the Lord reveals to us in 1 Thess. 5-1-4.

Paul did not write to the christians of 2009 (the we in your statements), he wrote to the first century Thess. 'They' did not know the day or hour, but they did know the generation. The first century generation.

by twospirits
in 1 Thess. 5-1-4.“But concerning the times and the seasons, brethren, you have no need that I should write to you. For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape.”

Who is the 'you' that Paul is writing to? It is the first century Thess. (you) twospirits can jump through hoops to project Pauls writings from the first century generation to each and every generation. To what end? Until Jesus/God decides that 'israel' will 'now' say that He is lord? --After some type of furturest torture and tribulation period of Christians or is only Jews in your paradiym--?

Christ's return will be surprising, sudden, and shocking to most people on the earth. The Bible clearly indicates that he will come when a majority of the people least expect him. “---Therefore let us not sleep, as others do, but let us watch and be sober.”

God bless---Twospirits

Who were those to 'least expect' Him? Jesus said that He would 'Come' when the Gospel had been preached to all of the World. Paul says in three different places that The Gospel had been preached to all of the world and to every living creature. Were the 'every living creature a contrast to every 'dead' creature? For only a remnent was to be Redeemed and given Salvation. The Prophets of the OT and NT had declared most would be blind and could not hear. They would by that "least expect Him", because that in the way God/Jesus said it would be. Did Jesus lie about coming 'In The Glory of The Father' at the fulfillment of the world evangalism? Did Paul lie about The Gospel being preached to 'The World' that needed to hear it. ie. 'all the world' of The Election.

Brother Les,

I have researched books and articles on preterism and its doctrine. I am about to read Gary Demar's book, Last Days Madness. But in general they all speak the same language concerning prophetic scripture and their fulfillment.

Most articles are biased and full of skewed information that does not represent the Covenant Eschatology paradiym correctly.
If you have any straight forward questions I will answer in how I view that situation.

[dlspence_58]

Most articles are biased and full of skewed information that does not represent the Covenant Eschatology paradiym correctly.

Then why do you consistently refer to websites and books if you think they are "biased and full of skewed information?" Is Bro. Les' Covenant Eschatology correct because you say so?

[twospirits]

Brother Les,

Well if the scriptures were only to apply (and completely fulfilled) to and for the 1st century generation, then why bother? For all is said and done, right? That is according to your doctrine of Covenant Eschatology.

(You quoted) "Until Jesus/God decides that 'israel' will 'now' say that He is lord? --After some type of furturest torture and tribulation period of Christians or is only Jews in your paradiym--?"

As scripture states, Israel has a hardening in part, until the fullness of the Gentiles come in; Thus in this way "all Israel will be saved." No, I am not a dispensationalist that believes there will be "an individual anti-christ" and a tribulation that kills two/thirds of Jews, where thereafter they all (or most) turn to the Lord. And yes I believe in the Coming of Christ to bring in the eternal state kingdom "in the new heaven and earth" (literal restoration).

(You quoted) "Most articles are biased and full of skewed information that does not represent the Covenant Eschatology paradiym correctly. If you have any straight forward questions I will answer in how I view that situation."

Thank you, I will do that. But the articles I read are articles that represent fairness to all sides. As a matter of fact I visit planetpreterist, where most there are Full Preterists and follow Covenant Eschatology, as does Don Preston. I'm sure you know of these sites and persons also being in Covenant Eschatology.

P.S. Here's the URL on my article "Dating Revelation", for you or anyone interested in reading it. It gives evidence never seen before of a post 70 A.D. dating of the book. http://www.freewebs.com/twospirits/Dati ... lation.pdf

God bless---Twospirits

[Brother Les]

by twospirits
(You quoted) "Most articles are biased and full of skewed information that does not represent the Covenant Eschatology paradiym correctly. If you have any straight forward questions I will answer in how I view that situation."

Thank you, I will do that. But the articles I read are articles that represent fairness to all sides. As a matter of fact I visit planetpreterist, where most there are Full Preterists and follow Covenant Eschatology, as does Don Preston. I'm sure you know of these sites and persons also being in Covenant Eschatology.

I stand corrected on where you are reading articles about 'Preterism". Thank-you.

Do you read Don Prestons' material? I am reading his book,(Coming) "In The Glory of The Father" right now.

Well if the scriptures were only to apply (and completely fulfilled) to and for the 1st century generation, then why bother? For all is said and done, right? That is according to your doctrine of Covenant Eschatology.

What was 'fulfilled' in the first century was the OC "Last Days", the NC has no end.... increase The Kingdom.

by twospirits
As scripture states, Israel has a hardening in part, until the fullness of the Gentiles come in; Thus in this way "all Israel will be saved."

Do you understand that Judah and Jerusalem were not "All Israel", for the Northern -House of Israel- were swept into 'captivity' (disporia) and became as Gentiles.The Southern Kingdom declared them 'Goem' The Fullness of the Gentile (Goem), ie Nations, had to return to 'Covenant'. But they (House of Israel) were 'put away'','Divorced' from YHWH under the Mosaic Covenant. The 'Hope' and the Promises to The Fathers (of Israel) were for The Resurrection from The Dead of 'All Israel' (meaning those of the bloodline who were the Elect of God, some were not) Bringing these 'Goem'/Nations/Ephraim/Gentile back into Covenant under the NC was the fulfilling of the term 'Fullness of the Gentiles'. These Gentiles (Ephraim) could never come back to 'covenant' with God until the full judgements of the OC had been completed, ie. 70AD . Judgment of the OC and very soon after that the 'fullness of the Goem'. Meaning, a remnent of all twelve tribes had come into the NC, Rev states 12,000 of each.

Blessings
Brother Les

[twospirits]

BL (Brother Les)

Do you read Don Prestons' material? I am reading his book,(Coming) "In The Glory of The Father" right now.

I read his book "Who is this Babylon?" and have read most of his articles in order to know about Covenant Eschatology. But I do not hold to this doctrine. I do not hold to the position that everything has been fulfilled and that we are now in the New Heaven and Earth "with no end." That this world will go on the way it is with evil, sin, and death continuing with no interference from God. That is not the scriptures I have come to know, sorry. Which also leaves out His promise: "Our Father who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name, "thy kingdom come on earth (literally; Rev. 21-22)" as it is (now) in heaven---."

"But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits: afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. Then cometh the end (of earthly dominion), when he shall have delivered up the kingdom (the saints, the body of Christ) to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority (all earthly dominion) and power. For he must reign (In heaven; Rev. 20-4-6), till he hath put all enemies under his feet. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death" (Rev. 20-7-15; all evil and the devil). 1Cor. 15-23-26.

The dating of the book of Revelation is the key to looking at eschatology in the proper way, for if it is post 70 A.D., which I hold it is, then there will be many that will have to rethink their positions, or stay with their tradition instead of with the Word of God. That choice is their's and their's only to make. In short, it is between them and their Creator.

God bless---Twospirits

[Brother Les]

twospirits
I read his book "Who is this Babylon?"

I have this book.

I do not hold to the position that everything has been fulfilled and that we are now in the New Heaven and Earth "with no end."

Your thinking should be from the first century Eastern Oriental Hebreic view point. Their Heaven and their earth and the NC relationship.

Then cometh the end (of earthly dominion),

Scripture does not speak of the round ball 'earth' ending, but the 'World/Age' of the OC ending.

"thy kingdom come on earth (literally; Rev. 21-22)" as it is (now) in heaven---."

The Kingdom in Heaven is a Literal Spiritual/Physical Kingdom (time and space occupied), is that not what is also on earth in the Literal Spiritual/Physical relm?

till he hath put all enemies under his feet. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death" (Rev. 20-7-15; all evil and the devil). 1Cor. 15-23-26.

Who were Gods' 'enemies'? Those who were OC anti-Christ, God has no enemies now and death, OC death has been destroyed. God says that He Laughs at the things men do. The enemies were those trying to stop the NC in the first century.

The dating of the book of Revelation is the key to looking at eschatology in the proper way, for if it is post 70 A.D., which I hold it is,

You should read Ken Gentrys "Before Jerusalem Fell" the dating of Rev. And David Chilton "Days of Vengence a commetary of Rev. Both of these books can be read online or bought from AV.

You said in an article that the Lord fulfilled His Covenant Promises of Restoration to Israel in 1948. Were not these Restoration Promises for the NC Marriage and to remove the curse of death? 80% of the Israelis claim to be secular and of a Jewish line (not very Godly if secular and anti-Christian). This posses problems of where is Ephraim (House of Israel) and the declaration that God would not let "The Rebels" in The Land (Beulauh Land). And the coming into The Land would not happen until 'The Fullness of The Gentiles'. Things don't add up in your paradiym, if this is the nation that YHWH brings back to Him in Rightousness nothing has changed.

[Lumberjack]

Hello Twospirits,

How about me? That's a good question, I wonder about that myself, sometimes.

What do you think about the works of R.J.Rushdooney?

Have you ever checked out Strategic Christian Services and Dennis Peacocke?

Regards, Lumberjack

[twospirits]

Then cometh the end (of earthly dominion),

Scripture does not speak of the round ball 'earth' ending, but the 'World/Age' of the OC ending.

Please read more closely, I did not say "the end (the total destruction) of the earth"; I said the "end of earthly dominion," as scripture (fact) states: 1 Cor. 15-23-26, "---then comes the "end" when He delivers up the "kingdom" (the body of Christ) to God, and has put down "all rule, authority and power." This means "all earthly dominion." You know like the nation of Paris, Russia, Brazil, the U.S. and etc. on the face of the whole earth.

The Kingdom of heaven is pure and un-defiled (Rev. 21-8; 22-15). The kingdom on earth (the body of Christ) needs to be "purified" before it can enter the physical Kingdom of God where he can dwell with men (Rev. 21-22). The Kingdom of heaven, the New Jerusalem, when all is fulfilled will Descend out of heaven to the "new earth" (Rev. 21-2). This is what God's word says, not the assumptions, books and writings of men. If one believes in God's word, then it is the final word over men.

Who were Gods' 'enemies'? Those who were OC anti-Christ, God has no enemies now and death, OC death has been destroyed. God says that He Laughs at the things men do. The enemies were those trying to stop the NC in the first century.

All those against God are his enemies, not just in the OC age! Sorry but most of the world "are still God's enemies and anti-christs!" And until Satan is defeated and destroyed (Rev. 20-10-14), as well as his followers, death has certainly "not" been destroyed! The Bible mentions nothing about "OC death." The Bible is speaking about literal and physical death, as well as the individual's spiritual death; and that is all. "OC death" is a doctrine made up by men who misunderstands scripture.


You should read Ken Gentrys "Before Jerusalem Fell" the dating of Rev. And David Chilton "Days of Vengence a commetary of Rev. Both of these books can be read online or bought from AV.

I have. And I have read the "facts of scripture evidence" which proves them and others wrong. I have given the link on my post above of the evidence taken from scripture itself as the source concerning the date of Revelation, read it and you'll see. That is unless you simply wish to believe what you have come to believe, and leave it at that. The choice is yours.

You said in an article that the Lord fulfilled His Covenant Promises of Restoration to Israel in 1948. Were not these Restoration Promises for the NC Marriage and to remove the curse of death?

That's another subject for another post and time, and quite a subject it is!

To Lumberjack, I've read very little of Rushdooney's work, neither the organization you mention.

God bless---Twospirits