Is Postmilennialism sinful?

[halomerk]

My dad finally gave me permission, and I read The Discipling of Mytra. But now he is trying to keep people in our church from reading it. And trying to keep people at my sister's school from reading it. He totally won't talk, except to say that if people ask I should pretend I haven't read it. But when I ask why he won't explain. The closest he came was asking if Christians should write science fiction. then i ask about all the sf movies he watches, and his collection of x-men comics. That's different, he says.

Two other guys at school dads dont like it they've read Mytra. One says its bc his dad hates Reformed theology. I get this; that's why his dad hates him being at Covenant. But the other friend's dad is an elder in OPC church. He says they're extreme into Reformed theology, and don't like Cov bc its not reformed enough. so if one dad doesnt like it bc it's reformed, shouldn't that make the other dad like it?

The OP guy's dad explained at least: postmilennial. What does this mean? He won't explain. Why is it bad? He won't explain. We're getting these really weird signals: there's something bad, we don't won't you indolved in it, but we won't explain it.

Can a dad tell his son not to read something if the son is 30? I mean, would it mean not honoring your father? What if the son is 20? Except my dad hasn't actually told me not to read it again. I'm on my 3rd read, but i don't tell him. I do know how that. its like im doing something wrong by reading a Christian book. It just makes no sense. he paid so much for a classical education. we studied all these atheist books, like Communist Manifesto and Origin of Species and Plato's Republic. But a Christian novel is bad?

I talked to my SS teacher and he says if the book is posmilennial, it could definitely explain why my dad wishes I hadn't read it. I ask him to explain postmilennial. He tries. I don't understand anything he says. He says if i really want to know, visit American Vision site.

So here I am. tried reading like so many articles, none of makes sense. Isn't there anything simple? most if seems like politics. My dad is an ultra-conservative repub, so why wouldn't he like postimillenialism?

Is postmilenialism sinful?

[Mike Bull]

Never heard of that book - but you know, if something gets banned, suddenly everyone wants to read it.
Postmillennialism - the brand around here at least - believes Jesus' description of the kingdom being like leaven. It will keep growing until it is complete. There will be a victory for the gospel, not just in heaven, not just in our hearts, but in history. Both Jesus and His church will be fully, publicly, historically vindicated before He returns.

[Brother Les]

Can a dad tell his son not to read something if the son is 30?

If you have to ask this on an open forum, it shows that there are deeper issues with you two, than a book to read.
Read the book for what it is ... fiction.

Never heard of that book - but you know, if something gets banned, suddenly everyone wants to read it.

http://www.puritanboard.com/f85/discipl ... een-52285/

[bmarinov]

If postmillenialism is sinful, then America was conceived in sin. The Puritans were postmillenial, and the optimistic view of history was prevalent in the American churches all the way into the 20th century. The Declaration of Independence itself exhibits the signs of an optimistic Christian view of history. The idea of "Manifest Destiny" has no meaning whatsoever in an amillenial or premillenial setting - it can only be conceived in a nation with a Christian faith and mandate to conquer the world through evangelistic effort.

Ironically, premillenial teachings were considered heretical and cultist in early America - see the popular reaction to the different adventist movements in the 19th century.

[halomerk]

Dude like im 20. Please, make it simple? imagine English is not my first language. Imagine i never went to church. *easy* explanation of postmil

sure, pos issues. he's good. Just don't understand why he wants me to hide it, like its porn

i have my reasons, one day you'll understand, take my word for it - I'm 20, right? Shouldn't he want me to *think* about books rather than avoid them

[OldDad]

Dude like im 20. Please, make it simple? imagine English is not my first language. Imagine i never went to church. *easy* explanation of postmil

sure, pos issues. he's good. Just don't understand why he wants me to hide it, like its porn

i have my reasons, one day you'll understand, take my word for it - I'm 20, right? Shouldn't he want me to *think* about books rather than avoid them

Exactly, how do you describe "Postmilennialism? :OldDad]/Quote

[Thomas]

Exactly, how do you describe "Postmilennialism? :OldDad]/Quote

But how do you "describe" or explain anything that is a complex subject to anyone that self evidently is struggling to even understand the English language? Maybe someone could find out his native tongue and national origin, then a translator could be found that could converse with him.

[bmarinov]

Dude like im 20. Please, make it simple? imagine English is not my first language. Imagine i never went to church. *easy* explanation of postmil

sure, pos issues. he's good. Just don't understand why he wants me to hide it, like its porn

i have my reasons, one day you'll understand, take my word for it - I'm 20, right? Shouldn't he want me to *think* about books rather than avoid them

Okay. I imagine English is not your first language. And I imagine you never went to church. And I imagine your father for one reason or another wouldn't let you have certain books at home. And I imagine you have access to Internet (otherwise you wouldn't be writing here).

I have something for you. A book that is the simplest, the easiest and the most compact and true explanation of Christianity, postmillenialism, and theonomy on the Christian book market today. You don't have to buy it, you don't have to have a physical copy at home. It is online, free to read, free to print out, free to translate in your own language, free to publish it if you want in any language you want.

The book is: Gary North, Unconditional Surrender: God's Program for Victory

Enjoy it.

[leekyle]

Postmillennialism is an optimistic view of the future, especially the future of the kingdom of God. As the generations go by, the Church will grow both in size and in maturity. Thousands of years from now (assuming Christ has not yet returned) there will be far more Christians than there are today. Christians will make up a greater percentage of the human population. Christians as a group will obey God's law more than they do today. They will trust God more. They will be more like Christ.

Furthermore, as the Church grows in quantity and quality, it will have a progressively greater impact on the culture around it. Christians are intended to be salt and light. More salt and more light = a world that is more and more pleasing to God. Less crime, fewer divorces, more people virgins on their wedding days, smaller government, less war, more people living out a full life span, higher quality music and literature, more people able to fulfill their callings and use their gifts, fewer church splits, etc.

The "thousand years" in Revelation 20:2,3,6 is a symbolic way of referring to a long period of time. This thousand years or "millennium" is the entire period between Christ's first coming and second coming. In other words, we are living in the "millennium" right now! And since Christ returns after this millennium, his return is "postmillennial."

This optimistic view of the future does not mean that every single generation will be better than the one before it. The Church could, and likely will, still have periods in which it does not grow or prosper. Nor does Postmillennialism guarantee that any specific country or culture will survive and prosper (Western Europe, for example, has largely abandoned the Christian faith - although note that this is outweighed by the growth of the Church in Asia, Africa, and South America).

My favorite passage for defending Postmillennialism is Daniel 2. The rock that strikes the statue is the kingdom of God, which Jesus established about 2000 years ago during his ministry on earth. That rock started small. But it is becoming a mighty mountain that fills the whole earth. Other passages that teach a positive view of the Church's future before Christ returns are Isaiah 65:17-25, Matthew 13:31-35, and 1 Corinthians 15:20-28.

It is worth saying that Postmillennialists do not believe that life on earth is ever going to be easy, or that some sort of utopia or perfect society will exist before Christ returns. The Christian life is a life of self-denial and cross-bearing, a relentless spiritual warfare. Satan and the world will never give up trying to tempt us. And no matter how large the Church grows, we individual sinners will always remain our own worst enemies, repeatedly giving in to our sinful desires and constantly needing grace from Christ.

Through the power of the Holy Spirit, the Church is going to win! How encouraging it is!

[halomerk]

So I am like giving the North book a go. But see my prob with the following phrases...

fundamentals of orthodox Christianity, implications of Christianity for the major institutions of human life, implement the principles, develop the institutional base, establishment Christianity, he should check his premises, documentation, slogans of Christian churches, presupposition, perfect in the original manuscripts (autographs)

North uses these phrases and terms just in his introduction! You see how North assumes the reader already knows and understand much of what he is supposedly trying to explain? I will keep trying, but this does not really satisfy my request for an *easy* explanation of Postmillennialism.

The previous post is more helpful, but still leaves me confused. Lots of non-Christians are optimistic, does that mean they are Postmillennial? And several posters discuss the "kingdom of God" without ever clearly defining it. But what, exactly, is the kingdom of god> if i alreayd, knew,why would i be askingh here on this forum? Why does everyone assume i know all these words? i know it is harder to explain a difficult idea in simpler language, but that s what it means to be a real teacher

in my ed classes they say use what the student already knows to teach what the student does not know. if there anyone on this Aermican Vision that knows how to do this?

[leekyle]

You mentioned that your dad does not like it that you read a postmillennial book (if that is really what he does not like about it). You said fathers of two classmates had expressed similar concerns. You seem confused by an excessive response to what is, after all, merely a work of fiction. What is the big deal? Postmillennialists believe the same gospel of justification by faith alone, through grace alone, because of Christ alone. We are not some weird group of fake Christians or cultists. But some believers feel very threatened by Postmillennialism. It makes them uncomfortable. Why?

If Postmillennialism is false, then our life on earth contains relatively little responsibility. We have to persevere in individual faith and repentance, and we have to evangelize the lost. But otherwise God does not expect a whole lot from us. We are basically free to go about our lives as we see fit. Thus a pessimistic view of the future is very convenient. It provides an excuse to justify our laziness and lack of cultural impact.

If Postmillennialism is true, however, then suddenly life is full of many additional responsibilities:

1) It is not enough to feed my children and make sure they get saved. Now I must train them for a life of filling and subduing the earth to the glory of God (no more public school).
2) It is not enough to know how to be forgiven. Now I have to spend years sorting through all the laws in the Bible, developing the foundation for a Christian civilization.
3) It is not enough to get saved and hang on, waiting for the Rapture. I have to roll up my sleeves, get out there, and do the hard work of actually making the impact that Postmillennialism says the Church ought to have!

So basically Postmillennialism makes lazy Christians feel guilty. It convicts them of sin. It ruins one of their primary excuses for not making a difference.

Yes, Postmillennialism = hard work. But it is worth it! Better to be a wounded, sweating soldier fighting to see Christ glorified in every area of life, than a couch-potato believer wasting his life in the "hope" that Jesus will come and "save" him from all this responsibility!

Through the power of the Holy Spirit, the Church is going to win!

[halomerk]

Thanks. What is the kingdom of God?

My dad does so much church. he makes so many sacrtifices to send us to Christian school. If he dooesnt like postmillennialism, i dont think it is because he is avoiding responsibiilty or looking of an excuse to be lazy