Two Resurrections?

[Moses]

Where in scripture do we find a clear teaching of two resurrections of the one person? Many refer to Romans and find a spiritual resurrection. Many refer to other passages and find a biological resurrection of that same person. But where is The Resurrection ever referred to as the resurrection(s)?

If there are two, then of which one is Christ the first-fruits? If Christ is our resurrection (or resurrection example as some would say) pattern, then why did Christ not resurrect two times? If Christ is the first-fruits of the biological/physical resurrection, then where are the rest of the fruits (i.e., the physically resurrected bodies of the ‘first-fruit’ saints)?

Is there a first and a second resurrection? Well, sure (Revelation 20:4-6). But you will notice that those who partake of the first resurrection are still not resurrected twice. There are two people groups resurrected in this scripture, but not two resurrections of the one person.

So again, many teach this two resurrection (one spiritual and one biological) doctrine, but where do we find this taught in the scriptures?

[Mike Bull]

Moses

I agree. We have 1000 years bookended by resurrections. Both are physical.
In the first century pattern, Christ was firstfruits (after Passover), Pentecost followed, and the end of the age came with Tabernacles (and Herod's Tabernacle destroyed). The olive and grape harvest was during the Roman siege.

In the greater New Covenant pattern, the first century church was firstfruits and we await the final Tabernacles, the real big feast.

The most important structure is the Garden, Land, World architectural "trinity" laid down in Genesis. Christ conquered the Garden with His blood, and was resurrected. The firstfruits church conquered the Land with their blood and were resurrected (the kings from the east [lit. "sunrise", also symbolically two legal witnesses against the Temple). The church they founded together (head and body) now conquers the world by blood and will also be resurrected. All are physical, as is the "Land" we conquer.

[seal]

Yo,

Me and my boi was just talking about this. Every resurrection text I know has been made into a Spiritual Resurrection by certain people (You know). However, Christ Resurrection is said to be physical but I'm still looking for the text that expresses it clearly that Christ should be raised Physically alone and not plural. And if there is a text that Christ is raised Physically why is it his Spiritual resurrection that is soley dispensed to this first fruits and everyone else in 70 A.D?

Does that make sense?

Grace and Peace,
seal

[Brother Les]

by Seal
However, Christ Resurrection is said to be physical but I'm still looking for the text that expresses it clearly that Christ should be raised Physically alone and not plural. And if there is a text that Christ is raised Physically why is it his Spiritual resurrection that is soley dispensed to this first fruits and everyone else in 70 A.D?

Does that make sense?

Grace and Peace,
seal

Are you saying that you think Jesus Christs 'Spiritual Rising up" was in AD70?

What and why did Jesus talk about The Sign of Jonas.

Matt. 12:39
Matt. 16:4
Luke 11:29-30

It this Jesus Christs 'Physical Rising up' ,for one of the 'bookends' that Mike talks about? The 'sign of Jonas' was not only about Jonas in the belly of the great fish, but Judgment on Ninavah

[Moses]

Mike
I like how you tie leviticus 23 into eschatology. The festal pattern is indeed seen in the final eschaton events and play an important role. What do you mean when you say "both are physical"...could you clarify?

Seal

It is NOT, imo, Christs spiritual resurrection that is dispensed to the Saints. It is THE Resurrection that is dispensed (it is not, only physical, or only spiritual...I will get to that in a second). Thinking in only spiritual or only physical terms misses the intended meaning of Resurrection.

Speaking of Israel's need for rebirth Jesus told Israels teacher, Nicodemus that he had to be born again...he thought only in the physcial and supposed a man had to enter the womb a second time!

The things jesus did and taught, including his miracles showed (not just spiritual) HEAVENLY truths.
Here is an example of a teaching and a miracle come together.

some people brought to him a paralytic, lying on a bed. And when Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralytic, “Take heart, my son; your sins are forgiven.” And behold, some of the scribes said to themselves, “This man is blaspheming.” But Jesus, knowing their thoughts, said, “Why do you think evil in your hearts? For which is easier, to say, ‘Your sins are forgiven,’ or to say, ‘Rise and walk’? But that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins”—he then said to the paralytic—“Rise, pick up your bed and go home.” And he rose and went home.(matt 9

The message is that sins are forgiven in Christ. . . but, no one would believe that. SO Christ heals the man and proves the heavenly. The healing of the man gives witness to the heavenly message of forgiveness.
Now, is every one who recieves forgiveness in Christ miraculously physcially healed..NO (that would be thinking in physical terms alone)

SO to the miracle of the resurrection of Christ himself. That was the ONE major sign to be given to Israel (the sign of Jonah) to PROVE Jesus' heavenly message concerning the kingdom of God and the resurrection. Christ's resurrection was physical, it had to be, it was the sign given which conveys clearly the promised Resurrection for Israel had come, and it has come in Christ.

The question is, what is the resurrection promise that Israel awaited, and Paul preached and was in chains for. When we answer this question we will find that the resurrction is not physical or fleshly (like nicodemus thought), yet it is not spiritual only (ie, excluding the body). The ONE resurrection involves the WHOLE MAN.
It is this ONE Resurrection that Christ is the first-fruits of. It is the ONE Resurrection that Christ's physical resurrection was a sign/miracle witness to Israel for.

does that make sense? (note, I know,,I have not gone into the details of this resurrection yet)

[Brother Les]

by Moses »
Mike
I like how you tie leviticus 23 into eschatology. The festal pattern is indeed seen in the final eschaton events and play an important role. What do you mean when you say "both are physical"...could you clarify?

Moses,
Have you read (heard?, he used to have audio on them) David Curtis' 6 Sermons on "The Feasts of The Lord"?
They tie in The Shadow (dress rehersel convocation Feasts) to The Real, (consemation of The Coming of God/Jesus) ie. bringing the Resurrection of 'man'.

They are at the bottom of the page and each sermon/paper is about 45 minutes long.

http://www.bereanbiblechurch.org/eschatology.php

by Moses
The message is that sins are forgiven in Christ. . . but, no one would believe that. SO Christ heals the man and proves the heavenly. The healing of the man gives witness to the heavenly message of forgiveness.
Now, is every one who recieves forgiveness in Christ miraculously physcially healed..NO (that would be thinking in physical terms alone)

SO to the miracle of the resurrection of Christ himself. That was the ONE major sign to be given to Israel (the sign of Jonah) to PROVE Jesus' heavenly message concerning the kingdom of God and the resurrection. Christ's resurrection was physical, it had to be, it was the sign given which conveys clearly the promised Resurrection for Israel had come, and it has come in Christ.

The question is, what is the resurrection promise that Israel awaited, and Paul preached and was in chains for. When we answer this question we will find that the resurrction is not physical or fleshly (like nicodemus thought), yet it is not spiritual only (ie, excluding the body). The ONE resurrection involves the WHOLE MAN.
It is this ONE Resurrection that Christ is the first-fruits of. It is the ONE Resurrection that Christ's physical resurrection was a sign/miracle witness to Israel for.

does that make sense? (note, I know,,I have not gone into the details of this resurrection yet)

One body made alive, both physically and Spiritually, made alive, when we believe and repent of our sins. It seems to be a corrupt teaching that the physical body must physically die, in order to be made physically 'alive' (in the great by and by), in Christ as one of the Elect. We have been given the gift of being alive Spiritual and bodily in Christ. but we selfishly want a physical body 'forever'. Is that Jesus/Gods true nature? It is not. But it is what we have been given, in The Kingdom on Earth, until the time we go to the Fullness of the Kingdom in the heavenlies.

[MoGrace2u]

Jesus was always alive unto the Father and anointed by the Spirit in this life. He did not need to be reconciled to the Father, for the Father was always with Him. This is not true for those of us who descended from Adam after the fall. We need to be born again by the Spirit and receive His life now. This is what the feasts should have instructed Nicodemus about concerning the redemption of Israel. The pattern of those feasts begins with the covering of the Passover Lamb and ends with the feast of tabernacles - God indwelling them by His Spirit, as God alone guides them as He did in the Exodus wanderings.

But a Sabbath rest remains which comes in the resurrection of the dead. Here in this world Christ had no place to rest His head. Trials and tribulations were all that awaited Him here - as they do us who follow His example. There is no worldly rest here for the citizens of heaven. Our rest is found only in the peace we have with God in Christ which rests in our hearts. But there is another realm where no sin or death ever existed. And that is where He has gone. And the way into the holy of holies in heaven He has consecrated for us with His own blood so that we who have been forgiven now can enter in.

That is what the story of our redemption is intended to tell us. It is about how we are to come from this world into that one that has been prepared to receive us. If the resurrection of the dead were only about the restoration of physical life here then Lazarus would have been a sufficient picture. But it is Jesus' resurrection AND ascension that is the faith our hope is anchored to. There is no need to justify and sanctify a man merely to give him back a perfect earthly life that he can enjoy forever.
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Post limit reached - will finish after someone else has posted.

[Moses]

Does anyone see resurrection, or the so called first resurrection, as a refering to the supposed "born again" experience?

[keepingtabs]

Does anyone see resurrection, or the so called first resurrection, as a refering to the supposed "born again" experience?

Yes.

Eph 2:1 states that "You were dead in your trespasses and sins". Since Paul was speaking to living persons, the 'deadness' was referring to spiritual deadness.

In Rom. 6:4, in reference to baptism, Paul states, "Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life." The "newness of life" would indicate a "spiritual" resurrection, as indicated in Rom 8:10, "If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness."

Believers are no longer spiritually dead, the spirit has been "resurrected". The body is still dead and will be made alive again at the physical resurrection.

Concerning first fruits: Jesus' resurrection was not the only first fruit. Matt. 27:52-53 states, "The tombs were opened, and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised; and coming out of the tombs after His resurrection they entered the holy city and appeared to many.

Who were these saints? Some say they were the OC believers that were in the Paradise side of Hades. Whoever they were, they were physically raised because they were seen by many.

[Brother Les]

by MoGrace2u »
Jesus was always alive unto the Father and anointed by the Spirit in this life. He did not need to be reconciled to the Father, for the Father was always with Him. This is not true for those of us who descended from Adam after the fall. We need to be born again by the Spirit and receive His life now.

Mat 27:46
MarK 15:34

Jesus Christ asks Father God, "why have you forsaken me"? forsaken :egkataleipō
Pronunciation

en-kä-tä-lā'-pō (Key)

verb

Root Word (Etymology)

from G1722 and G2641

Outline of Biblical Usage
1) abandon, desert

a) leave in straits, leave helpless

b) totally abandoned, utterly forsaken

2) to leave behind among, to leave surviving

Why did Father God abandon, desert, leave behind, utterly forsaken Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ had taken All The Sins of The World upon Himself and He died and He took those Sins (From The Cross To Adam) to The Grave. Father God would not be in the presence of Sin and Jesus Christ became -as- Sin.

Gal 1:4 1John 2:2 Romans 6:7-12

By dying to and from The Law and all of The Sins that the acussor (the Law) pointed out throught the Ages, there also must needs be a 'Rising Up' (a new birth) from The Son of Man, to The Son of God.

This should help explain Jesus Christs Second Birth.

http://www.eschatology.org/index.php?op ... &Itemid=61

Brother Les

[seal]

Seal

It is NOT, imo, Christs spiritual resurrection that is dispensed to the Saints. It is THE Resurrection that is dispensed (it is not, only physical, or only spiritual...I will get to that in a second). Thinking in only spiritual or only physical terms misses the intended meaning of Resurrection.

Speaking of Israel's need for rebirth Jesus told Israels teacher, Nicodemus that he had to be born again...he thought only in the physcial and supposed a man had to enter the womb a second time!

What I propose is that the Physical and Spiritual world are unseperable. Somehow, many have seperated them as if one has no bearing on the other.

Is Satan's Kingdom Spiritual?

Nicodemus was Spiritually ignorant and had yet to be regenerated so how could he understand spiritual matters being sown in carnality. It wasn't for him to understand yet at least.

Just a few thoughts I had for you. Thanks for the dialogue so far.

Grace and Peace,
seal

[Brother Les]

by Seal
What I propose is that the Physical and Spiritual world are unseperable. Somehow, many have seperated them as if one has no bearing on the other.

If 'you' (any reader) are a christian, welcome to The Kingdom of God (Earth and Heaven)

by Seal
Is Satan's Kingdom Spiritual

If 'you' (any reader) are (as Reformers would say) unregenerated, welcome to the kingdom of the accuser (earth and hell)