Atheism’s Ally

[PaulT]

Sam Harris a prominent atheist in his book “A Letter to a Christian Nation” makes the claim, “If God exists, either He can do nothing to stop calamities, or He does not care to. God, is either impotent or evil”

Christianities response to this attack against God by the atheist is to rebut that while God according to His purpose allows evil to exist at the end of the day He will right all the wrongs when as Scripture tells us He is “all in all” The Christian message of hope for the world, that God is in control and will one day right all the wrong is the only light in a very dark world. However there is a movement that has originated in our own circles that is an ally of Mr. Harris, the movement is called Hyperpreterism.

Hyperpreterist, “Evil never ends, Paul. The bible doesn't even speak of it...not in the sense YOU'RE wanting. You have made up an entire paradigm and now argue against anyone who opposes it.”

Above is an example of a “Christian” confirming the very words the atheist uses to attack God. In collaboration with the enemy the Hyperpreterist adheres to a system of belief, a man-made tradition that robs Christianity of its answer to the worlds problems. As remarkable as it is someone who perceives of himself as a “Christian” could hold such a diabolical view, the fact that he denies the clear teaching of Scripture on the matter is even more remarkable.

The rules won’t allow me to post the plethora of text which demonstrates God will remove evil but here are a few.

I will tell of the decree: The Lord said to me, “You are my Son” today I have begotten you. Ask of me, and I will make the nations your heritage, and the ends of the earth your possession. You shall break them with a rod of iron and dash them in pieces lake a potter’s vessel Ps 2:7 – 9

Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name. Your kingdom come, your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven Matt 6:9, 10

When all things are subjected to him, then the Son himself will also be subjected to him who put all things in under him, that God may be all in all 1 Cor 15:28

The Christian confronts the atheist proclaiming evil will be defeated, sin will be eradicated and one day God will be “all in all.” The atheist disputes this very Biblical message utilizing evil in argument to deny God. Where does the Hyper-Preterist stand, his message is clear, he colludes with the enemy those who oppose the King and His Kingdom, but yea even he one day will come under subjection to the King. What say you.

[Catie]

You should read the response to Harris' book by Douglas Wilson, noted postmillennialist and "Christian" called Letter from a Christian Citizen if you haven't already.

[PaulT]

Thank's, actually I got the quote of Harris from Wilson's publication. I think if you check out pg 23, Wilson goes into the Christian worldview which is antithetical to that of the hyperpreterist's, which is my point after all.

PaulT

[shotgun]

Mr. Paul,

While I think your attempt is admirable, I don't think it works here.

You've misstated the historical protestant "answer" to the argument of evil. When correctly formulated, I don't see any reason why the "hyperpreterist" wouldn't be able to answer the atheist, just as any Christian would.

You see, there is a logical problem that the Atheist is trying to highlight:

1. All powerful God
2. All Good God
3. Evil exists.
Conclusion: Either 1, 2, or 3 is wrong...and no one is (usually) willing to argue over 3, so the problem must be with the first two.

Christians respond by pointing out that there is no logical contradiction in positing an all-good God who utilizes evil to bring about good (even if we don't always know what that good is, nor are we always psychologically comfortable with the situation.)

I see no reason why a "hyperpreterist" wouldn't be able to avoid the seeming inconsistency by appealing to the logical possibility of an all-good God utilizing evil to bring about good.

[PaulT]

Mr. Paul,

While I think your attempt is admirable, I don't think it works here.

You've misstated the historical protestant "answer" to the argument of evil. When correctly formulated, I don't see any reason why the "hyperpreterist" wouldn't be able to answer the atheist, just as any Christian would.

Thanks, but no I don't believe I have misstated the position and frankly I don't think a position that would concede evil will remain a part of creation forever is very effective with the athiest, it merely confirms the athiest's position God is neither willing or able to utlimately deal with evil. Thank you for your thoughts.

PaulT

[UbiDubium]

Christians respond by pointing out that there is no logical contradiction in positing an all-good God who utilizes evil to bring about good (even if we don't always know what that good is, nor are we always psychologically comfortable with the situation.)

I don't understand that statement. If God is both all good and omnipotent, He would never need to "utilize" evil to do anything. He needs no tools.

[shotgun]

Ubi...

You've posited a psychological question.

We may not know why God has chosen to glorify Himself by using evil...however, the fact that He has, is NOT a logical contradiction. So...however strong the "problem of evil" may be psychologically...it's certainly no logical problem for the Christian.

To Mr. Paul,

Even if we propose (1) evil is eternal

It doesn't follow that (2) God is not able to use it for good.

So, while there may be unique psychological problems for the "hyperpreterist" to surmount in this area...there is no logical problem, and the Atheist is back at square one.

[PaulT]

Ubi...

You've posited a psychological question.

We may not know why God has chosen to glorify Himself by using evil...however, the fact that He has, is NOT a logical contradiction. So...however strong the "problem of evil" may be psychologically...it's certainly no logical problem for the Christian.

To Mr. Paul,

Even if we propose (1) evil is eternal

It doesn't follow that (2) God is not able to use it for good.

So, while there may be unique psychological problems for the "hyperpreterist" to surmount in this area...there is no logical problem, and the Atheist is back at square one.

You are begging the question that the Christian's only response is that God uses evil for good, as pointed out in the OP, the Christian's reponse is that while God uses evil for good he nevertheless will bring it to an end ultimately addressing the problem of evil. This is why I didn't agree that I had incorrectly framed the Christian response. God's plan of redemption is the answer to evil. If evil is eternal it necessairly means God is unwilling or unable to deal with it, whether or not He intends it for good.

PaulT

[Globachio]

Here is the inconsistency of atheism. In other words, why would an atheist care about "calamity" or "evil"? Furthermore, in a meaningless universe such concepts don't even exist ... unless one is merely pretending to be an atheist and is actually living and thinking as a Christian.

[PaulT]

Here is the inconsistency of atheism. In other words, why would an atheist care about "calamity" or "evil"? Furthermore, in a meaningless universe such concepts don't even exist ... unless one is merely pretending to be an atheist and is actually living and thinking as a Christian.

Why live in a universe forever plagued by evil? What hope is there for man, what glory does that bring to God?

PaulT

[shotgun]

Mr. Paul,

It doesn't necessarily follow that God isn't "able" to deal with Evil if He chooses not to end it.

Suppose He has decided to "use evil to bring about good" for all eternity?

Even as a "partial-preterist" I believe something similar to this scenario. I certainly don't think God will cause all the evil in Hell to cease. It will be a cess-pool of sinful thoughts and if the evil souls imprisoned in such a state can act at all, then I'm sure they'll be acting out the sinful desires of their hearts.

If some Atheist were to allude to this belief of mine and claim that it were proof (necessarily!) that God could not be all-good and all-powerful (at the same time) I would show him his non sequitur. There is no logical contradiction in saying that an all powerful, and all good God has ordained evil to bring about good for all eternity. If there is a logical problem there...I admit that I cannot see it and need help from my Christian brothers.

[PaulT]

Mr. Paul,

It doesn't necessarily follow that God isn't "able" to deal with Evil if He chooses not to end it.

So God is unwilling to deal with evil, the atheist is correct. Gotcha. BTW, "hell" isn't a part of God's good creation, nice attempt at developing a straw-man.

PaulT