Noah's Curse on Canaan

[JTownsend]

James
I know other versions translate the passage the same way. Perhaps I'm just not willing to accept it.

I'm going to have to just say that I don't know what exactly happened but obviously whatever happened was wrong. I'm not saying the text is unclear - I'm saying that from the text I can't derive enough facts to conclude specifically what happened beyond the fact that it was wrong.

If any man came and had sex with me while I was drunk on the floor that would be wrong. (icky icky wrong)

If any man came and made fun of my nakedness while I was drunk on the floor, that would be wrong. (happens in the gym all the time.. minus the drunkeness)

And if any man went and slept with my wife while I was drunk on the floor that would be wrong. (Maybe you can look and admire - but you don't touch.)

And I especially hope none of those ever happen to me.

[Aduro]

I still think my answer is viable

[shotgun]

I appreciate your answer Aduro, especially seeing as how you referenced J.P. Holding in forming your opinion.

I can also sympathize with Mr. J.T. on this issue, especially since we are left with speculation (no matter how strong.)

I'm interested in the eschatological ramifications of this (if any) and how it has been historically handled.

[tetrahedron]

Shotgun,

When I first saw this thread I knew why you started it.

There is no indication that this curse exists today. Canaan and the Canaanites are long dead.

[Aduro]

Well, what would there be? All men are equal in Christ, so I don't think you can successfully argue anyone's inferiority, except for those that refuse Him. Some may have a greater disposition to answering the call, but then you could argue that God either placed them in an environment that would increase their chance, and/or He led them to Him Himself.

What would you say to that, or did I miss the boat here? I can't see how the Curse would make any difference in eschatology, unless you want to try to argue that Canaan's descendents are just regularly more depraved than others. And then it'd still just be a drop in the bucket of prophecy, and something garnered from an earlier source and never directly mentioned. I'd say it's really being made out to be more than it really is, although that's already been said a few times here, I think.

What do you think, personally?

[dlspence_58]

Gen 9:25 And he said, Cursed [be] Canaan; a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren.

Gen 15:16 But in the fourth generation they shall come hither again: for the iniquity of the Amorites [is] not yet full.

I believe this tells us what the curse was all about. When the Israelites went into the land of promise they were to remove the Canaanites...because the Canaanites iniquity was full. Thus, the curse is finished.

[shotgun]

Interesting.

Do you know of any commentator that would agree with you?

[lizzyd]

If you and Mr. J. L. Vaughn can't civilly converse with people who disagree with you about various issues, then you should reflect on the maturity required to post in forums like this.

Shotgun, I think a dictionary break is in order. "Civility" is not defined as "agreeing with Shotgun." Everyone has been courteous to you - giving you the benefit of doubt at first, but still remaining polite even though it is now clear what your views are.

You could start by civilly answering questions.

You don't even answer half of the questions that have been asked of you.

Your gross misrepresentation of our exchange aside...nothing you just said has any bearing on this thread.

This seems more like of an example of "not conversing civilly."

JTownsend, I know where you are coming from because I actually had never seen this verse interpreted in this manner, either. I learned something new yesterday.

I'm interested in the eschatological ramifications of this (if any) and how it has been historically handled.

I don't see how there are any, when the Canaanites are long gone.

[Azaliah]

So far, most of the people that have posted today, I believe are correct.

1. What did Ham do to Noah? Whow knows, the bible isn't clear on it, we have only tradition which indicates some sort of violation occured. Lol and using the NIV to gain a perspective on the KJV is like using a Forum to gain a perspective on Merriam-Websters dictionary IMHO.

2. Was Noah's curse permanent (still ongoing to this day), I would say if any Caananites lived, that would be true yes (however even among the Rabbi that fact is argued).

3. Because noah, cursed the Caananites should we consider it "OK" to persecture, enslave, discriminate against any of them. Well is it ok to be racist against the Jews (it's apparant God made many curses against them), well in that case putting Jesus on the Cross was what he deserved (since he was a Jew), in fact we should all stay away from Jewish Religions like Judeo-Christianity. It's a massive stretch in my opinion.

It would be little different than a man justifying his marriage to a porn-star because Hosea married a prostitute.

[Mike Bull]

Ham's sin was stealing the authority of his father, symbolised by the robe.
See http://www.biblicalhorizons.com/biblica ... nion-trap/

Jordan and Leithart are great on this stuff.